by Leroy Moore
Krip-Hop: Hello Kathleen, we met online then later in New York. You’re a journalist and a filmmaker. Tell us about your work and this documentary.
Kathleen Kiley:I’ve been a journalist for 17 years and when I started this project in graduate school several years ago, I was interested in telling a story using a visual medium. One of the courses I had taken at New York University was digital filmmaking. As a writer and print journalist, it wasn’t easy for me to learn how to tell a story in pictures, but the experience has been very fulfilling. I had no prior documentary film experience.
KH This documentary started out as a project for your graduate degree. How did it evolve to what it is today?
KK: My writers’ group Urban Myth, of which I’ve been a member for over 10 years, came up with the idea of showing short films at Tribeca Film Center in New York City in 2001. At the time, I was working on the Soulja project at school and this pushed me to create a short film. I got very positive feedback at the screening; viewers wanted to know more about Soulja, whose real name is Bryon Breeze, Jr. I never imagined it would have taken several years to complete, but when you’re dealing with a person’s life and all of its twists and turns, a documentary can take a long time.
KH: When you saw Soulja on the street in his wheelchair for the first time what did you think?
KK: Not knowing Soulja as I do now, it was hard to look at him – because he was so different looking – and because I assumed he had a hard life. I wondered what would happen to him. My feelings weren’t of pity, but I found it incredible, and still do, that in the United States -- one of the wealthiest countries in the world -- we have people like Soulja struggling to make ends meet by panhandling – he calls it “work.†That’s a tough way to make a living, no matter what you call it.
KH: Describe Soulja, his work, his passion and why his story is good for the big screen.
KK:Soulja gets up early in the morning and is often on the corner of 60th and Madison, in mid-town Manhattan, by 6 a.m. He hates traffic. When he isn’t driving, he commutes by bus and train – about a 2-hour commute each way – that’s if there are no delays on mass transit and the subway elevators are working in New York. If one elevator is broken down, a person in a wheelchair has to get back on the subway and go to another stop, way out of his or her way.
What drives Soulja is a desire for a better life and the vehicle he’s chosen is music. He comes from a line of musicians and artists. His father was a gospel signer and his grandmother taught piano to many gospel singers throughout her life. On his mother’s side are teachers, which I think is where he gets his interest in speaking to children and motivating them to achieve their dreams.
Why do I think this is a good story for the “big screen?†Good question. I think his story has all the elements of a good story: a passionate desire to achieve on a road beset with obstacles. He’s a contemporary hero that the audience will end up cheering for as he overcomes obstacles, many of which are imposed by society and the system. I think many people can relate to him.
KH: Was this your first time working with a person with a disability?
KK: Yes.
KH: As an older, White, non-disabled woman, how did you connect with Soulja, Hip-Hop and his disability?
KK: I think in the beginning – from the outside – it probably looked like an odd relationship. I use that term because you do develop a relationship with your characters, hopefully a good one and trusting one. I look back and laugh because Soulja would mention rappers, such as DMX and 50 Cent, and I would say, “Who?â€
And he would say, “You don’t know them?†-- as if to say, what planet was I living on? Now I know about many of the rappers and what’s going on in the industry. (But I’m pretty old school; I’m a fan of Grandmaster Flash. Great lyrics and social commentary.) So although I didn’t know Soulja’s world in the beginning and I’m a white, non-disabled woman, I did connect with him. When I first met him he said, “Until you open the book and read the first chapter, you be you and I be I.â€
We make judgments based on a book cover or image. And this story is about breaking perceptions and being visible. Often visibility is based on what those in power see at the time, whether it’s political, financial or cultural power. Soulja’s story is about shattering the rules of visibility.
I don’t know if I connected with Soulja’s disability. I can never image what it’s like to be born without all the features that make an “able-bodied person†able or that allow us to function in a world designed for “able-bodied people.â€
I don’t know if I’m oversimplifying a complex subject, but I relate to Soulja as I would any person I like. He’s charming, he has a lot of drive and he is curious about the world.
Looking back, perhaps I was more comfortable with Soulja than some people might have been. I grew up with a grandmother who was deaf and her son, who lived with her, was in a wheelchair all his life. Deaf and disabled was not how I perceived them – they were simply people I loved and enjoyed spending time with.
KH: This documentary has been in the making for seven years. How did you keep it going and do you think it is a good time to release it?
KK: I’ve financed the project to date. Last year, Nancy Abraham, president of the Alexander Abraham Foundation, provided me with an injection of funds. It was good timing because I needed the funds to finance shooting the end of the film. Also, Michael Patrick Kelly, the producer on the film, come on board about 2 years ago, and he’s put in considerable time without pay. In addition, Barbara Morris, a co-producer along with myself, ran around with me in the beginning to film some of the early portions. Barbara also gave me funding last year and helps me with marketing.
We’re at a good point to put together a work-in-progress so we can show it to the likes of HBO or a film distributor. HBO has expressed interest in the film so we’re putting together something and getting ready for the IFP market in September, an invitation-only event that brings together filmmakers and producers.
KH: Do you think your film will break new ground in the area of the film and music industries?
KK: Well, look at what you’re doing with your Krip-Hop work. I think that is groundbreaking work, bringing together singers and musicians who are disabled. In the same way, I think this film will shatter misconceptions about people who are disabled and the abundance of talent that isn’t heard because the barriers to entry are high – I’m talking about national distribution.
KH: Tell us what is Soulja’s biggest goal right now?
KK: Getting his music ready to present to Quincy Jones. When he went to Georgia in 2006 to go to a Tony Robbins event, he was brought up on stage and one of the things Tony promised him was a meeting with Jones. So this could be a career maker for Soulja and his artists.
KH: When is the movie coming out?
KK: End of this year, given that we get distribution.
KH: If you can say in one sentence the theme of the movie what would it be?
KK:“Born with a design to fail, we prevail.†– Soulja
I think Soulja summed it up for me recently with his quote.
KH: What have you learned from doing this documentary?
KK: I’ve learned so much from filmmaking and I still have a long way to go. And I’ve also begun to understand the issues surrounding people with disabilities. And I’ve just scratched the surface on this subject as well.
KH: Did you run into any negativity in your suggestion of having a person with a real disability being the star of the movie?
KK: None yet. We’re just starting to see people with real disabilities play roles in movies, rather than have an actor “fake it.†And because this is a documentary, these are real people with disabilities in this film.
KH: After the film is out there, will you keep in contact with Soulja?
KK: Absolutely. We’ve become friends over the years.
KH: Who’s the target audience and how are you going to reach them?
KK: I’d like to say it has universal appeal to all age groups and demographics, but I know industry executives will hammer me for a core group. I think the HBO crowd and urban theatergoers, as well as younger people who are interested in new music. I would like to get a major distributor behind this film, which will help with visibility. We’ve been lucky with getting press without asking and I’m not pushing for it until we’re close to completion.
KH: What do you think about the representation of people with disabilities in the movies and Hip-Hop industry?
KK: Leroy, you seem to be working to change people’s perception in the Hip-Hop industry of disabled musicians. Kudos.
In the film industry there is some interest in positively or, shall I say wholly, representing people with disabilities, especially in documentaries like “Murderball†and “The Collector of Bedford Street.†The first is about athletes in wheelchairs and the second about mental disability. But, by and large, we have a long way to go in that area, especially in understanding the disabled as whole people, or fully-rounded characters, with all the virtues and flaws of others, not just as symbols of inspiration for able-bodied people to use to feel better.
The word “disability†covers a lot of ground. There’s a good web site with listings of all kinds of films with disabled characters: www.disabilityfilms.co.uk.
KH: How many characters are in this movie?
KK:There are many, because Soulja knows so many people, but the story centers around four main characters, including Soulja. When I first met Soulja, he wanted to bring together the Urban Casualties, three rappers who are handicapped. They all met in Washington, D.C. and when Soulja moved to New York to create a better life and work in the music industry, two of the Casualties remained in D.C. Wild and Cookie, have had their share of troubles, and so it’s taken this long to get everyone on the same page. Soulja was the motivating force behind it: He knew if he didn’t push for it, despite all the difficulties going on in their lives, it might never happen. So he rented a van and drove down to DC to bring them up to New York, where they recorded five songs in a professional studio this past October.
KH: Will there be a soundtrack?
KK: Yes. There are so many wonderful singers and musicians who don’t know how to break into the industry. I think this film will highlight some new and up-coming talent.
KH: Tell us one of the highs and lows of shooting this documentary.
KK: One of the highs was seeing Soulja bring together the Casualties. It was dramatic because it was a great reunion and it gave them such hope to keep going. There’s a song they sing -- “Tomorrow Ain’t Promised to Ya†-- and in their world, they have a sense of that. They’ve seen so many of their peers die young, mostly from violence, and so they know tomorrow is but a dream.
I think one of my low points was when I got sick in December of 2006 – I’m better now – I knew we were filming the end of the film in 2007 and I wondered how long it would take for me to get better and whether I would have the energy to follow through. Glad to report I did.
KH: How much input did Soulja have in the direction of the movie?
KK: We gave Soulja a camera to record his point of view. He has a good eye and it’s interesting to see what he shoots and how he sees the world. So this will influence how we edit the film, which we’re now in the process of doing.
KH: How did assemble your film crew? And how did they react to Soulja?
KK: We never had a problem getting people interested in this film. When we’ve put out a query for shooters and editors, we’re often swamped with replies. We pay them, but it’s not a lot of money.
KH: What kind of support did you receive and by who?
KK: I’ve been lucky in getting a producer, Michael Kelly, who wouldn’t take any pay. And again, I’ve had some good filmmakers, such as Michel Negroponte, shoot some segments, at rock bottom rates, or they didn’t charge at all. I have to add that working in the documentary community has been a wonderful experience – very supportive.
KH: Are you going to do another documentary and is there going to be a part two?
KK: I don’t know about another one. I hear the first one is easy because you’re so naïve about the process. I like filmmaking. If this one were successful, I would think about another one, especially if another good story comes my way.
Krip-Hop News: Any last words?
Kathleen Kiley: Thank you for your interest in this film and I love how this film has connected me to people I would have never met, such as yourself.
A Krip-Hop book featuring this interview and more will be out in November 2008.
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